Roger and DTMF

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Roger and DTMF

Danny de Bont

Hi Guys,

I used to have my node setup on simplex only and it worked fine. However, a few days ago a local repeater owner suggested I use their frequency to propagate Echolink to a larger audience.

So my setup is all still at my QTH but am now TX'ing on a repeater frequency. Problem is that the repeater has "Roger Beeps" enabled and the repeater owner will be out of town for a period of time. This has caused some annoyances with repeaters I connect to as the "Roger Beep" is also being transmitted over Echolink. Is there a way I can "by-pass" this with SvxLink (or at least make it less irritable)?.

Also, I have the same settings in RepeaterLogic as in SimplexLogic, but when I start SvxLink in RepeaterLogic it keys up the radio and doesn't let go. The only reason I want to do this is to be able to use "-R" instead of "-L" to inform users that my node is connected to a repeater. Not a train smash ...

Lastly, has the feature to send DTMF commands via CLI been enabled yet? I can remember reading about it a while back.

My node is setup for VOX.

Thank you
Danny
ZS6XOX
73's


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Re: Roger and DTMF

Rob Janssen
Danny de Bont wrote:

>
> Hi Guys,
>
> I used to have my node setup on simplex only and it worked fine. However, a few days ago a local repeater owner suggested I use their frequency to propagate Echolink to a larger audience.
>
> So my setup is all still at my QTH but am now TX'ing on a repeater frequency. Problem is that the repeater has "Roger Beeps" enabled and the repeater owner will be out of town for a period of time. This has caused some annoyances with repeaters I
> connect to as the "Roger Beep" is also being transmitted over Echolink. Is there a way I can "by-pass" this with SvxLink (or at least make it less irritable)?.
>
> Also, I have the same settings in RepeaterLogic as in SimplexLogic, but when I start SvxLink in RepeaterLogic it keys up the radio and doesn't let go. The only reason I want to do this is to be able to use "-R" instead of "-L" to inform users that
> my node is connected to a repeater. Not a train smash ...
>
> Lastly, has the feature to send DTMF commands via CLI been enabled yet? I can remember reading about it a while back.
>
> My node is setup for VOX.
>
> Thank you
> Danny
> ZS6XOX
> 73's
>
>

I would not suggest such a setup for linking repeaters!
Maybe it is bearable for linking end-users to the local repeater, but they would still have the problem that they can only transmit after the repeater
has sent its roger beep AND has switched off the transmitter (hang time).  This will give Echolink users almost no chance to use the repeater.
But of course they can listen in.

When the remote is a repeater as well, of course the situation would be even worse...

To have a well-working Echolink connection with a repeater, you best integrate the Echolink system with the repeater itself, not over
the radio link.  So change the repeater to use Svxlink as its control software and enable the Echolink module there.

Of course there is no way to configure Svxlink to do it better, after all Svxlink does not know what the remote repeater is doing
(sending roger beep, sending CW ID, someone talking, transmitter on the air for tail time, etc) when it is not in control itself.

Rob

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Re: Roger and DTMF

F5VMR Orange
In reply to this post by Danny de Bont

Hi Danny,
Quite an interesting problematic situation. Firstly revert to simplex logic. Repeater logic is for the heart of a repeater. There is no way you you can filter the audio from a repeater so the beeps will continue, but you can minimise this by removing all announcements from your logic. It is a bit painstaking but worthy of the effort. You should only allocate the -R when you are the sysop of the repeater really, and use the repeater callsign -R. Otherwise you are merely providing a link to a repeater. You can have your link announce this to internet users by the text facility and creating a . Wav appropriate to be played when a user connects.
Rob has answered most of the questions in any case. Best of luck.
Chris
https://f5vmr.wordpress.com/about/

Envoyé depuis l'application Mail Orange


----------------
Le 10/07/2016, à 10:58, Danny de Bont a écrit :

Hi Guys,

I used to have my node setup on simplex only and it worked fine. However, a few days ago a local repeater owner suggested I use their frequency to propagate Echolink to a larger audience.

So my setup is all still at my QTH but am now TX'ing on a repeater frequency. Problem is that the repeater has "Roger Beeps" enabled and the repeater owner will be out of town for a period of time. This has caused some annoyances with repeaters I connect to as the "Roger Beep" is also being transmitted over Echolink. Is there a way I can "by-pass" this with SvxLink (or at least make it less irritable)?.

Also, I have the same settings in RepeaterLogic as in SimplexLogic, but when I start SvxLink in RepeaterLogic it keys up the radio and doesn't let go. The only reason I want to do this is to be able to use "-R" instead of "-L" to inform users that my node is connected to a repeater. Not a train smash ...

Lastly, has the feature to send DTMF commands via CLI been enabled yet? I can remember reading about it a while back.

My node is setup for VOX.

Thank you
Danny
ZS6XOX
73's




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Re: Roger and DTMF

Danny de Bont
In reply to this post by Rob Janssen

Thanks Rob ... best I wait for the owner to return then. Is there a way to put SvxLink in "Listen Only" on startup? (not via DTMF)

Any pointer to send DTMF tones via command line?

Danny

On 10 Jul 2016 11:10 AM, "Rob Janssen" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Danny de Bont wrote:
>
> Hi Guys,
>
> I used to have my node setup on simplex only and it worked fine. However, a few days ago a local repeater owner suggested I use their frequency to propagate Echolink to a larger audience.
>
> So my setup is all still at my QTH but am now TX'ing on a repeater frequency. Problem is that the repeater has "Roger Beeps" enabled and the repeater owner will be out of town for a period of time. This has caused some annoyances with repeaters I
> connect to as the "Roger Beep" is also being transmitted over Echolink. Is there a way I can "by-pass" this with SvxLink (or at least make it less irritable)?.
>
> Also, I have the same settings in RepeaterLogic as in SimplexLogic, but when I start SvxLink in RepeaterLogic it keys up the radio and doesn't let go. The only reason I want to do this is to be able to use "-R" instead of "-L" to inform users that
> my node is connected to a repeater. Not a train smash ...
>
> Lastly, has the feature to send DTMF commands via CLI been enabled yet? I can remember reading about it a while back.
>
> My node is setup for VOX.
>
> Thank you
> Danny
> ZS6XOX
> 73's
>
>

I would not suggest such a setup for linking repeaters!
Maybe it is bearable for linking end-users to the local repeater, but they would still have the problem that they can only transmit after the repeater
has sent its roger beep AND has switched off the transmitter (hang time).  This will give Echolink users almost no chance to use the repeater.
But of course they can listen in.

When the remote is a repeater as well, of course the situation would be even worse...

To have a well-working Echolink connection with a repeater, you best integrate the Echolink system with the repeater itself, not over
the radio link.  So change the repeater to use Svxlink as its control software and enable the Echolink module there.

Of course there is no way to configure Svxlink to do it better, after all Svxlink does not know what the remote repeater is doing
(sending roger beep, sending CW ID, someone talking, transmitter on the air for tail time, etc) when it is not in control itself.

Rob

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Re: Roger and DTMF

Rob Janssen
Danny de Bont wrote:
>
> Thanks Rob ... best I wait for the owner to return then. Is there a way to put SvxLink in "Listen Only" on startup? (not via DTMF)
>

You can load modules at startup, we always load Echolink at startup.
That should be what you need to provide Echolink users a method to listen to the repeater, I think.

> Any pointer to send DTMF tones via command line?
>
>
I don't know about this, sounds like something DL1HRC would know about.

Rob

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Re: Roger and DTMF

Matthew Miller
I run a svxlink portable node that I take with me to some events where there
is a portable repeater set up, I've made a couple tweaks to keep people
happier.  I would say you don't need to worry about "if people are using the
repeater wait for carrier drop" because good operators do that ANYWAY even
on RF to RF.  There are 2 reasons for this, one is to let other people have
a chance to throw their call out; the other is to keep the repeater from
timing out.  I've had both happen to me without any Echolink stuff going on
at all, 2 guys going back and forth they never let it drop and then after 3
min trying to break in the repeater times-out and goes into fail-safe
shutdown.  So I think it's reasonable for Echolink users to need to wait for
the courtesy tone and carrier drop before TX.

Here's what I do when I need to interop on a repeater:
-Run SimplexLogic module with Echolink
-Configure the radio the same way you would for normal repeater use (svxlink
RX on repeater output, TX offset to key up repeater input)
-Turn off all ID-ing unless TX has occurred
-Turn off "end of transmission" beep in TCL (pisses off people on RF if
there is any packet loss)
-use passcode to enable (123#)/disable (321#) DTMF in TCL (because there
were conflicts with repeater features DTMF commands)
-Set longer Echolink timeout
-Set larger number of connections (10) to support multiple users

Here's the sanitized version of my configs if you are interested:
https://github.com/mmiller7/svxlink-rpi-setup/tree/master/sample_configs


-Matthew Miller

"The fastest thing a computer does is become outdated"
~Andy Rooney

-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Janssen [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2016 5:22 AM
To: Discussions about development issues
Subject: Re: [Svxlink-devel] Roger and DTMF

Danny de Bont wrote:
>
> Thanks Rob ... best I wait for the owner to return then. Is there a
> way to put SvxLink in "Listen Only" on startup? (not via DTMF)
>

You can load modules at startup, we always load Echolink at startup.
That should be what you need to provide Echolink users a method to listen to
the repeater, I think.

> Any pointer to send DTMF tones via command line?
>
>
I don't know about this, sounds like something DL1HRC would know about.

Rob

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Re: Roger and DTMF

Rob Janssen
Matthew Miller wrote:

> I run a svxlink portable node that I take with me to some events where there
> is a portable repeater set up, I've made a couple tweaks to keep people
> happier.  I would say you don't need to worry about "if people are using the
> repeater wait for carrier drop" because good operators do that ANYWAY even
> on RF to RF.  There are 2 reasons for this, one is to let other people have
> a chance to throw their call out; the other is to keep the repeater from
> timing out.  I've had both happen to me without any Echolink stuff going on
> at all, 2 guys going back and forth they never let it drop and then after 3
> min trying to break in the repeater times-out and goes into fail-safe
> shutdown.

Ok of course it depends on the way the repeater has been set up, what the local policy is,
and how busy it is.

Here the custom is to wait for the roger beep (and give others a chance to break in before
it) and not wait for the hang time (which is several seconds here).

Our "failsafe timeout" is set to 2 hours, not 3 minutes.  But sometimes when the repeater
is busy, it still kicks in!
(our repeater is normally TXing 80-90% of the time except during the wee hours)

Rob

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Re: Roger and DTMF

Scott Currie
In reply to this post by Rob Janssen


On Sun, Jul 10, 2016 at 2:09 AM, Rob Janssen <[hidden email]> wrote:

I would not suggest such a setup for linking repeaters!
Maybe it is bearable for linking end-users to the local repeater, but they would still have the problem that they can only transmit after the repeater
has sent its roger beep AND has switched off the transmitter (hang time).  This will give Echolink users almost no chance to use the repeater.
But of course they can listen in.

When the remote is a repeater as well, of course the situation would be even worse...

To have a well-working Echolink connection with a repeater, you best integrate the Echolink system with the repeater itself, not over
the radio link.  So change the repeater to use Svxlink as its control software and enable the Echolink module there.

Of course there is no way to configure Svxlink to do it better, after all Svxlink does not know what the remote repeater is doing
(sending roger beep, sending CW ID, someone talking, transmitter on the air for tail time, etc) when it is not in control itself.

Rob


I am running this exact setup (and I am the repeater owner). We do not have Internet available at the repeater site yet, so the Echolink connection needs to be remote. I am using CTCSS signaling, the repeater is configured to transmit CTCSS only when there is a valid RF user on the input. As soon as the RF user stops transmitting, CTCSS on the repeater transmitter stops, the link radio/svxlink detects this and turns around allowing Internet users to respond. This also prevents courtesy tones and (most) repeater ID's from going down the link to the Internet users. I have linked our repeater to another repeater (also owned by me), and the users couldn't tell who were local and who were remote. Timers are never exceeded.

This is actually a fairly common way to provide Echolink to a repeater remotely, I know of other repeater owners doing the same thing (only they use the Windows Echolink software at the remote site). There are still issues with this setup, and it does take modification to the repeater to make it work (in our case, the repeater controller supported this with a simple programming change), but so far it has worked well. I am using the CTCSS hardware on the remote radio (a Motorola M10) to detect the CTCSS change, but svxlink link supports this in software as well.

--
-Scott

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Re: Roger and DTMF

Matthew Miller
In reply to this post by Rob Janssen
I guess thats another difference, every repeater I am in range of the carrier drops instantly following the courtesy tone when someone stops talking.  I can imagine that would drive anyone with BCLO enabled nuts if they had to wait thru long dead air to key up.

That reminds me - is there any way to enable a BCLO in the svxlink setup so it won't talk over people but is "smarter" (e.g. waits to ID) than just setting that in the radio?  I have had some times that the repeater and svxlink try and ID talking over each other and it ends up botching both announcements.

Indeed, it depends how stuff is set up.



Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Rob Janssen <[hidden email]>
Date: 7/10/16 10:00 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: Discussions about development issues <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Svxlink-devel] Roger and DTMF

Matthew Miller wrote:
> I run a svxlink portable node that I take with me to some events where there
> is a portable repeater set up, I've made a couple tweaks to keep people
> happier.  I would say you don't need to worry about "if people are using the
> repeater wait for carrier drop" because good operators do that ANYWAY even
> on RF to RF.  There are 2 reasons for this, one is to let other people have
> a chance to throw their call out; the other is to keep the repeater from
> timing out.  I've had both happen to me without any Echolink stuff going on
> at all, 2 guys going back and forth they never let it drop and then after 3
> min trying to break in the repeater times-out and goes into fail-safe
> shutdown.

Ok of course it depends on the way the repeater has been set up, what the local policy is,
and how busy it is.

Here the custom is to wait for the roger beep (and give others a chance to break in before
it) and not wait for the hang time (which is several seconds here).

Our "failsafe timeout" is set to 2 hours, not 3 minutes.  But sometimes when the repeater
is busy, it still kicks in!
(our repeater is normally TXing 80-90% of the time except during the wee hours)

Rob

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Re: Roger and DTMF

Danny de Bont
In reply to this post by Rob Janssen

What I have done as a temporary solution was to set the sound card capturing to 0 and VOX to values that will not trigger the PTT on local incoming RF signals ... it's dirty but seems to work ... ;)

Danny

On 10 Jul 2016 11:22 AM, "Rob Janssen" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Danny de Bont wrote:
>
> Thanks Rob ... best I wait for the owner to return then. Is there a way to put SvxLink in "Listen Only" on startup? (not via DTMF)
>

You can load modules at startup, we always load Echolink at startup.
That should be what you need to provide Echolink users a method to listen to the repeater, I think.

> Any pointer to send DTMF tones via command line?
>
>
I don't know about this, sounds like something DL1HRC would know about.

Rob

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